<ul style="font-weight: 400;"> <li data-leveltext="" data-font="Symbol" data-listid="7" aria-setsize="-1" data-aria-posinset="1" data-aria-level="1">How to position your treasury strategy in the current rate environment</li> <li data-leveltext="" data-font="Symbol" data-listid="7" aria-setsize="-1" data-aria-posinset="2" data-aria-level="1">Ideas on new sources of funding</li> <li data-leveltext="" data-font="Symbol" data-listid="7" aria-setsize="-1" data-aria-posinset="3" data-aria-level="1">An access-to-capital update</li> </ul> [toggle title="TRANSCRIPT"] <div class="transcript-scroll-box">00:38Discuss Treasury strategies, new sources of funding and access to capital is Robert McDonald, Vice President of structured finance, investment banking in the investment banking division of Goldman Sachs. He's been with Goldman Sachs for 15 years and before that was a financial engineer at Ford Motor Company. Please welcome him to the stage. Thanks. 01:23 So I guess the topic of today is Williams discuss. It's really about funding and assessment of today's capital markets. And when I hear the word markets, capital markets, the first question I asked, Well, what market are we talking about? Are we talking about the equity market? Are we talking about the fixed income market? And so, that's, that's the basis in which I'm going to sort of take take you through my discussion here today. 01:53 I'm really gonna touch on five areas. 01:57 Number one, we'll start macro and sort of grind our way in into micro, at least from an auto finance perspective. Because if I am an institution, and I'm trying to sort of manage my funding program, these are all things I believe are important if you're sort of sitting in the Treasury, Treasury See, sort of planning your making, making your funding plans and looking for funding your business. So we'll talk about, first of all, sort of the global and domestic, macro economic triggers that you should be aware of in today's market, who will then move into the consumer market, and talk a little bit about some of the trends we're seeing with the consumer broadly speaking, we'll then funnel that in and compare that to what we're seeing specifically within auto finance and the consumer will couple that within auto finance with some of the stuff we're seeing on Vehicle values, vehicle recoveries, then we'll move into the securitization market, which many auto finance originators use, but not all. And then we'll talk just a little bit about other ways we've seen people fund themselves. Using securitization, we call it multi contributor model in securitization. It's pretty popular in the commercial mortgage space. And now you've seen some of the some of the FinTech lenders apply this approach 03:35 in the personal loan space, as well as the studio space. 03:40 I think from my macro economic trigger standpoint, the markets at least today has been relatively constructive, responsive to both domestic monetary policy and tax reform. So what we've seen really, in our markets is 04:01 equity markets are up, 04:04 sprayed credit markets sprayers have continued to tighten. 04:09 I mean, they're really, I guess, five key areas that, you know, we pay attention to at the moment. Us monetary policy and the Fed beginning to shrink their balance sheet. Trump's fiscal agenda, tax reform, some geopolitical uncertainty, particularly in North Korea. And the Middle East, Japanese monetary policy we focus on and then the German German elections there have, those are all sort of macro economic triggers that I think everyone should sort of be aware of in monitor. probably more importantly, from a macro economic standpoint is the interest rate, interest rate market rates arising, that's put going to, obviously increased cost for auto loans which are short, short term Fixed Rate assets. 05:03 Gs forecasts 05:06 were probably on the higher side in terms of rates increasing in terms of short term. But this this certainly will be a catalyst for rise and race from now through 2019. So, as a funding matter, and as a pricing matter, something that institutions certainly need to be mindful and aware of. When I think about sort of the impact of the Fed's balance sheet right off the bat, we would expect Treasury yields to increase as there's there's more supply overall supply in the market. And, you know, this is our plan. This is our telegraph. I don't think the market by any means will be caught off guard by this, but it's just something to keep in mind. Keep keep in my MBA, are aware of switching gears for a moment, let's talk a little bit about the consumer and the re levering of the consumer. 06:14 If you exclude mortgages and home equity loans, 06:18 consumer deleveraging that happened post crisis that lasted until about 2013 when you hit the post crisis low, and now you're seeing consumers, you know, have is just much have as much leverage as they ever have. If you take out mortgages and home equity loans, that's certainly something that we're watching when people think about a potential consumer credit bubble. I mean, overall, credit carians have been positive FICO scores are probably at their all time high if you look at sort of overall population. But again, that's that's really added Because we don't want to lower unemployment levels. That's the thing we've focused on most in ways check the change in unemployment. It's been steady increase of, of consumer originations, overall credit quality has been fairly good fairly high when we look at various originations by credit score, so consumer credit quality in the auto space has largely been consistent across borrower and lending categories. Couple of couple points that, you know, sort of stick out in these materials. You know, we we look at sort of all winners and then I look at sort of top 25 because the top 25 guys really just they drive the market in give you a good indication of what's going on at each particular institution or within each particular sort of industry and sector. We think about sort of moving to the auto market in particular. And this, William mentioned this early on, we see a lot of news articles, potential headwinds, particularly with us car prices. We although recently we've seen that stabilize, I think the Hurricanes probably, you know, had a hand in doing that, taking a little bit of supply out of the system, creating both new and used vehicle demand. 08:39 This stuff that we we keep a 08:43 real close eye on. I know you have lease originations that have increased here recently, and so over the next call it 12 to 18 months we expect to see a bunch of us vehicle supply hit the market, but thus far, the market feels like it has absorb. And hopefully that continues to be the case but something that we should all be aware of. You know, one of the things we have noticed is that the credit unions appear to have been grabbing share in the auto finance market. Now, no, those are primarily mix of new and use prime new and use prime vehicle loans. But that's something we've been sort of keeping our eye on as credit news have become more and more aggressive in the space. Probably one of the reasons of keeping over our interest rates across the board. The market continues to grow. We will not have a trillion dollars in sort of overall market market share, which really just shows the importance of the asset class. As expected, expect originations to come down here coming forward as new car new vehicle sale. 10:01 We expect that to come down 10:04 a touch. 10:06 But again, the market is a large market, important market. But we do expect I believe, I do expect origination, so just come down a bit. But they were sort of prime and subprime net losses and delinquencies. You know, this is where I think the numbers in the facts, at least that we were observing don't necessarily line up with some of the press articles that you're reading, that there's a, you know, subprime auto bubble, on the verge of coming, which the numbers are just nowhere near the peak losses in delinquencies that occur back in oh eight, right at the crisis moment. You know, that's something that is probably, unless you're in the industry and doing this day to day I don't know if there's really an appreciation to how well the credit Mark overall credit market, at least in auto finance has been has been functioning. 11:15 If I look at subprime loans as a percent of the total auto loan market, I, I, I look at this as a way to really see, you know, sort of how frothy the market is, how much capital is in it, again, that that share has been rising, but is still below the pre pre crisis peak, you know, which was suggested to me, from a bubble standpoint, we're nowhere close to the quote unquote bubble in the subprime model space, but it's certainly something that that bears, bears monitoring. If I switch gears to sort of the securitization market, and what we're seeing there, as sprayers, continue to 12:01 get tighter and tighter and tighter. 12:06 Now the overall auto ABS securitization market in terms of issuance volume, at least in the prime space, fairly stable, you know, mid mid 30s, upper 30s billions dollars in terms of annual issuance. So from a you know, technical standpoint, issuance is relatively consistent, but sprays continue to grow tighter. That's I think that's just a function of the capital that's out there. 12:43 That needs to be invested. 12:47 look similar. 12:50 Similar, similar similar trend in subprime auto. When you look at sprays, sprays continue to grind tighter, particularly For what I would call your frequent issuers in the subprime auto space, issues that with track record and experience, investors are rewarding them with tightening spreads. It's probably a 13:17 bit of comfort to 13:20 over the years and sort of the overall performance of subprime auto 13:27 is switching gears to lease market. again same thing, sprays continue to grind tighter 13:34 issuance volume 13:39 could be slightly impacted by investors concerns of residual value is but for the most part, still issuing at a healthy clip per annum, you know, close to, you know $12 billion year to date, a touch off of last year, but sprays continue to be tight. Steel in this space as well. 14:05 For player 14:08 for playing teams to grind titers, well, that floorplan has a link most of the Floor Plan issues all captive issuers, and so there is this link up, you know perceivably to the health of the manufacturers end to end today those issue issue is volumes, you know, have been up this year, you'll see relatively consistent issuance of these revolving transactions, but again, well received asset class by the market. So, you know, what I really would say across every auto related sort of asset class that we've covered spreads have continued to grow and tighter. And there's been, you know, a fair amount of issuance and each and so it's sort of rounded out into completed we look at sort of corporate fleet and rental car fleet. 15:02 This is where 15:05 we do see 15:08 some spread widening namely hertz transactions, but I think those are more corporate related issues given the corporate performance, but overall in terms of issuance volume and investor appetite, the mark the market is there for any any company to fund to fund themselves across various asset classes within the auto market. 15:33 Last thing I want to discuss is 15:37 multi contributor securitisation model. And what I mean by multi contributor is we have different owners of the assets contributing those assets to one single securitization. And in that's a way if you think about some of your newer newer companies, where the Sort of equity capital may not be available, and you're looking for ways to continue to grow your origination platform. You can have an originate and sale model where you sell a good chunk of your assets to third parties, and then you tell those third parties that you will manage the securitization vehicle so that they can put term funding on those assets. It gives you a way to originate many more assets, then you have the equity capital to support. 16:33 And so the big keys here when you think about 16:37 it, employing this type of model and look at some of the recent 16:42 institutions that have done this Lending Club has done this marlette has done this so fast, has also done this model. It's not It's not uncommon. It is it has always really existed in the commercial mortgage space. We haven't seen it in the auto finance sector. And I think that's really driven by many of you securitizers in the space have well established securitization programs, and then your newer entrants don't really mature enough to get to the securitization market until they've had to establish history. But you know, this is certainly a way and we've certainly been employing various issues to consider this type of model, particularly when equity capital is a concern. 17:37 Coupled diagrams for 17:41 for your pleasure, but example of sort of how it works. If each each if I have three parties that wish to contribute to a securitization, the idea is to try to make sure you have some sort of fair fair value estimation or market value of what each each institution is control. tributing so that you know if there are gains or losses with respect to the overall credit quality, or value of each each portfolio and so these sort of valuation mechanics are most important to establish that all upfront going in to your potential contributors. 18:25 With that alum, 18:28 William, sort of open it up and take questions. 18:32 Random applause 18:38 thanks for joining us here today. I want to remind everyone to submit questions again, once again through the app or through slideshow. That code is 950 if you go to slide or you can navigate to the session in the app. 18:52 So when the start, Rob with 18:55 giving, hopefully you could give us a little more sense of your background in terms of you know, you'd be And it was Goldman Sachs 15 years now is that what I was saying? So can you give us a little sense of where? 19:11 Right? So I've been at Goldman for 15 years I run our auto and equipment, structure finance business. It's a business that folded focuses on the auto and equipment finance asset classes, responsible for loan lease floor plan, rental fleet, corporate fleet, on the auto side, as well as the equipment side. equipment are really focused on small and mid ticket equipment. When I started Goldman, I joined a group called principal finance it really was a principal Group, a group focus on buying assets. 19:45 I ended up focusing in on the auto sector, 19:49 not necessarily by choice, but that's where the opportunity was, and plus I had some background working at Ford credit back in the late 90s. How has the money Market changed, evolve developed. I mean, look, the securitization market in auto space is a big market. I mean, first of all the asset is a has grown. Like I said, we're over a trillion dollars back when I started 15 years ago. Now maybe we were half 1,600,000,000,000. So we've seen it grow. And for the most part, it's been sort of a pretty steady market, you had prime and subprime. You had a little bit of leasing. You had the crisis setting. The auto asset class is probably the one of the better performing asset classes 20:48 in the market continue to grow. 20:52 You had a lot of equity, private equity, really come into the subprime auto space. A lot of that Private equity is figuring out what they want to do with their companies at the moment. And now you have this whole mobility transformation, you have the advent of ride sharing, you have consumers looking at new ways to acquire vehicles, online, digital and digital financing. So we're probably there's, at this present moment is probably the most amount of change and transformation in our particular space, which makes it interesting. 21:35 So when I'm talking with, you know, analysts like yourself, or if I go to ratings agencies to talk about, you know, the capital markets. The thing that always comes up to me first is that that chart you showed the delinquency line and where the peak losses or delinquencies were during the recession, and those lines keep getting closer and that's what everyone's talking about, right. So why I've heard from other people, but I want to hear you know, from you, you know why we shouldn't be concerned about you know, those losses. And I think it's particularly concerning when you think about what the economy is like, you know, we talked about how, you know, unemployment looks really nice right now, the economy's growing. So why are we seeing that line tick up so high when when all the macro effects are in favor? 22:26 Yeah, I mean, so I mean, look, you got to keep it in mind and keep in perspective, really what we're looking at, we're looking at relative to year over year, and if you think about increasing losses, slow, that's just what it is. Because if you think about how, sort of these credit cycles work, you had a point where and I hate when people say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. But when you hear quotes, as if underwriting is loosening and so more individually have access to credit. Now all that is true. However, I think it's proper to put into perspective. It's not as if each institution has decided to loosen their underwriting standards. I think what you really want when people say that what they really mean is post prices, we had new entrants into the auto finance market, and those new entrants as a way of competing, provide looser underwriting standards. So if you look at the market overall, you certainly have more individuals having access to credit and buy more a sort of wide variety, certainly deep deeper down in credit. And so, that is the phenomenon that you see in some of the performance charts. Clearly if you originate credits with with lower FICO scores, and so lower demographics, the performance will get worse over time. But again, worse over time, relative to your expectations, I don't know that anything has performed worse than people have expected. And so that I think that's the gauge that people sort of need to keep in mind, just looking at a graph and seeing it go up, as long as that is in line with with the market's expectation, which clearly is. 24:20 That's why I said some of the concerns should be muted, 24:22 right? Do Do you see expect that expectation to go beyond where we were with, you know, peak losses or to reach that line at some point? And would that be okay, because we're pricing for rescue, you know, putting putting in the risk pools for that. 24:40 I mean, I don't know about absolutes, but 24:44 I think the market sort of corrects itself. 24:49 I mean, the auto auto finance asset is such a short duration asset. If things go worse than you expect, that's usually fixed within three to six months. And so you see, you see a sort of self correction from an origination standpoint that I don't expect losses to naturally go as high as they were, without some sort of event, event driven occurrence, crisis or otherwise, right. 25:20 So, right now we're looking at 25:24 a lot of new entrants in the space or we have been for the past few years. 25:28 Looking to securitize, you know what, what are some best practices you can suggest for someone who's looking to get into this environment? Now? Do you even think it's, you know, a good time to get into the securitization market if you're a new player coming in? I mean, 25:38 right now the securitization is, is very robust. Investors are searching for you. So in terms of access to the market, there's probably no greater time from an access standpoint. In terms of best practices, investors, at least the ones that we talked to appreciate consistency. 26:03 They appreciate transparency. 26:07 And what I mean by that, as you meet and educate investors on your program, your business and your program, the more consistent you can be, particularly when delivering on items that you you're planning to deliver on. I think investors sort of reward that. Okay. 26:29 We've seen a lot of new regulations come into the securitization market to in terms of risk retention, we've seen reggae v2 coming in, is that a barrier to new entrance? It can be 26:43 if you don't have the systems in place to report the loan level data that's required, particularly for you know, public issuance, for risk retention purposes. If you don't have the capital available. required to dispatch knowledge, some of those transactions. It could be a barrier. We haven't we haven't seen it be a barrier noticeably, but it could be. 27:12 In some of the reporting I've done for the magazine, too. It's I've heard that some people are trying to hold on sales on that side to sort of bypass those regulations in the unsecured ization side and just make it an easier transaction on them. Have you have you seen any similar activity on your end? 27:30 Look, the whole loan market, you know, is a way to do that we look we've seen more whole loan activity in the auto space than we have in many, many years. But I don't know that the driver is necessarily securitization regulations. I mean, it could be one of the factors but I'm not sure it's the primary driving factor. 27:53 Great. Okay. 27:57 One of the other big sort of credit risk we're seeing is declining. US vehicle market. 28:03 What does it mean for the quality of these pools, you know, moving forward? 28:09 Like when you when you break away that sort of declining values and like I think the morning session mentioned that any day Dan mentioned that that sort of stabilized in terms of use vehicle values and that's true, but if you break it apart, it's really the compact car is compact and small car segment, when you see decline advice like trucks and SUVs values that have actually held up fairly well. So from that standpoint, you know, maybe there's pressure on your severity in terms of recovery. But again, I think, you know, higher severity or lower recovery in the used car market worrying or heading into is sort of built in, I'm sure the rating agencies taken into account when their forecast their expected losses and I know for a fact the investors sort of taking into account. So, again, unless something happens, 29:07 you know, that's unexpected. I don't know that you see much impact on. 29:13 Well, you talked about this SUV and truck values, I think they've been so good for the past few years and just in the past month or two months now, it seems to be declining a little faster than maybe people expected and we're sort of expecting some more depreciation coming down the road is that, you know, more cause for concern, you know, is that something investors should should look out for, or, you know, a lender structuring this these sorts of loans. Is that, you know, another consideration, 29:39 I mean, I'm sure they're consideration. I know folks are taking it in, you should see ltvs coming down at touch to compensate, you know, for for sort of higher severity. But again, I don't know that we've gotten to a point where you see a material impact 30:00 couple questions from the audience here a multi contributor securitization model, what would be a typical deal? 30:08 Typical deal. 30:12 If we look at look at a transit, I mean, typical deal would be an originator would 30:17 sell loans to multiple purchasers, you know, over some period of time, let's call it six months. In month six, that originator says, to the institutions that we've sold loans to that I'm planning a securitization, do you want to contribute your assets to that securitization? Yes or no? To the extent the answer is yes, you may have three or four sellers into one securitization. But assets that were originated by the same originator and service by the same servicer. So from an investor standpoint You have a consistent pool from origination and servicing criteria standpoint, but the equity or the equity capital, you know from from those portfolios is spread out amongst the sellers. So far does this and so does marlette in the personal loan space Lending Club just did their thing their first sort of sponsored securitization view where they had multiple sellers contributing assets into that transactions. In 31:42 in the also in the multi contributor model, what does each contributor service their own port or does each contributor service their own portfolio? 31:50 That is common service, common originator common service is just the owner of the assets are different. Okay. 31:57 What are the exit strategies for the PE players and The other space by excess 32:01 drives I'm assuming this is focused on subprime auto. 32:06 There are no exits unless you sell your assets. The platforms are probably have limited value, but there's no natural exit. 32:14 And that's I think that's one of the biggest issues 32:20 in the subprime space at the moment. 32:25 The proper holders of those businesses are holders, long term holders, who are happy to take their returns via dividends and and nano exit. And so, you think family offices, good holders of those assets, insurance companies, potentially. But private equity firms who are looking to double and triple their money, not so much. So I look I'd expect to see some consolidation in space. However, I think the biggest issue today, the phone And markets are so attractive. You can continue to sort of tread water if you will, and operate your business without any pressure to sail. And hope basically hope the market turns and people start paying multiples of book value at the moment. It's Yeah, you're trading it book or some discount the book. And I don't know that people are necessarily willing to stomach that at the moment. Given how good the broader markets are, tough position to be. 33:35 We touched on reg A B to a little bit earlier. Can you talk about some of the benefits to investors in terms of having that loan level data in the public abs? Well, I mean depends on the type of investor 33:47 First of all, you have to have the ability to a analyze it and absorb it. We would if, if it does anything if it doesn't do anything else is just an incremental level of training. In terms of the assets that are being originated, if used properly, I think it's helpful to compare asset portfolios from, you know, from the same issuer, time over time, and then also useful to compare issue to issue in terms of loan level data disclosure. But again, that, you know, you sort of have to be set up from my data analytic standpoint, to really get maximum benefit. 34:31 Yeah. And, you know, I think earlier this month, one of the things we reported on was the dbrs report, they had an inaugural report came out, I think, earlier this month that sort of broke down some of those asset level information in these reports and sort of was able to compare it you know, issuer, issuer, and there was some pretty good data in there. So, if anyone checks out of finance news or that report, you might find some interesting information there as well. What do you anticipate will be the effects of the market if tax cuts do go through? 35:05 Hmm. 35:08 That's a good question. 35:10 I mean, I would hope that there's not explosive growth. 35:19 At the moment, I think new car sales are running where they should be. 35:26 I mean, if it filters down, the economy should grow. 35:32 But I hope it doesn't grow too fast. It's not overheated. 35:34 Why is that? 35:36 I mean, then again, you will see a bubble. 35:44 It sounds like you think subprime spreads are tighter than the risk would suggest. Do you agree and if so, what do you think the risks should? The risks should? 35:55 Where do you think the risk should put spreads? 35:57 I don't think that I don't I don't know, I don't know that I agree with that statement. spreads are tight. I think the risk is fine. I mean, there's no at ease. All the deals are like, I don't know that there's any real material risk of bonds losing money. It's really just a question of liquidity. And how liquid those bonds can be. But I think the I think the spreads reflect that. I mean, so I think that the market, I'm a market person and so the market are pricing bonds where they're pricing them, I think that's where they should price. 36:40 What yield is, are the investors looking for when buying auto loans, 36:45 loans or 36:46 when buying auto loans? Yeah, the yields that are looking for 36:49 loans if I if I break it into prime loans, you're probably looking at a loss adjusted so Adjust that you have for three and a half 4%. And if you go to subprime, it varies by degree but it's probably loss adjusted, servicing adjusted 910 percent unlevered returns not that answer somebody's question 37:23 within which part of the auto finance market Do you anticipate Goldman will focus most of its capital raising efforts in 2018? 37:31 Wherever they let the market dictate that 37:34 anything on the horizon in terms of what you're anticipating and trends, 37:39 I mean, I've been spending more time on in the rideshare leasing markets and new market 37:45 that's interesting to us 37:50 being closer to the actual vehicles rental fleet so my mission earlier in the conference There, you're going to see more transition to institutions becoming fleet managers. So I think we'll spend a fair bit of time in financing fleets of vehicles. 38:17 More so than, you know, auto loan portfolios. 38:21 That's that's what my focus has been. 38:24 Does that change any of the sort of, you know, risk adjustments if you're, you know, looking at a, you know, a portfolio of Fleet rideshare vehicles versus, you know, your typical auto loan portfolio, because that seems to be like you're saying where, where the industry is going what Dan was talking about in terms of where GM is looking towards the future. Tell us a little bit about you know, how that shift plays out in the capital markets. 38:48 It's a shift where you're going to be more in tune to where vehicles are being so what is the actual fair market value of vehicles that you're lending to guess deals that We've done to date we've had mark to market mechanik mechanisms that 39:05 get done on a monthly basis 39:10 where there's sort of a buying base, sort of, you know, dynamic aspect to lending. And so you really, in order in order to sort of get that you really have to have a good source of, you know, where the market values for these particular vehicles, and we do it on a vehicle by vehicle basis, Vin level, Vin level, mileage specific mileage, because in most of these vehicles, whether it's OnStar some other telematics, you can get the mileage directly on a daily basis. And so if you get the event, the exact model the exact mileage and then there's a question of vehicle condition. That piece is a little bit of unknown but there are some that the market will have to get used to Understanding. 40:01 And as I understand it, too, you know, when you think about sort of the future of autonomous vehicles or fleet management that way, these vehicles are gonna sort of rack up more miles more quickly. But, you know, you have this like idea of Tesla, where they're where you own a car, and then the, your, you know, at work, and then the car autonomously goes off and provides ride sharing services to someone you know, during the day, you sort of rack up more miles, but really, the life of the car sort of stays the same, or is actually a little, little less than the vehicle still able to go, you know, almost I've seen it like 500,000 miles and some of the estimates so how does that, you know, change in the use of the asset to, you know, that's much longer, much more mileage, you know, the residual value that you're trying to calculate into these deals, you know, these are all things that the industry is sort of working through, how are how are you guys thinking about that? 40:52 No, you'll be like you can you can see a model where you start off, trying to lean against asset value. The residual value for some autonomous vehicle is going to be tough to understand and calculate. But you can see it morph into, I'm now leaning against cash flow, less asset and more cash flow. Once you sort of have predictability, if I have a vehicle that's operating, how much revenue that vehicle is generating, where you're actually lending against that revenue. Okay, so you'll see shift you go from vehicle value at first. And what I would call a more traditional vehicle, guys, you'll see these traditional vehicles be utilized and ride sharing. And you'll see how much revenue is being generated off these vehicles. And then as you move into more autonomous vehicles, you're going to be lending against relatively predictable cash flow, hopefully at that point, versus the actual value of the underlying asset. 41:52 That'll be an interesting shift. That's one 41:55 last question I want to touch on was, you know in terms of use vehicle values, we've seen We've seen a lot of off lease vehicles come back in the market a lot of us vehicle volume out there a few companies out there turning towards us leasing. Is that something that's being securitized right now or that you anticipate might you know, come on to the capital markets? 42:16 not expect so? Um, yeah, I mean, the way I look at any vehicle, once somebody buys it is a used vehicle. So, whether it's used vehicle or a new vehicle, by the time that vehicle comes back, they're all used. So I actually prefer use vehicle leasing because the entry point, the basis is probably a little bit better than new vehicles. The depreciation is a little bit more 42:43 they've been probably a little bit more accurate at least early on in life. 42:48 I mean, we provided a warehouse facility to a company that focuses on used car leasing here recently, so I, I would expect them to use the securitization market like anyone else. 42:58 It will provide a name on that 43:01 Is our public Moosa Auto Finance? Yeah, Richard's in in the room. 43:09 Great. Well, I think that's all the questions I have. So thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. At this time, I'd like to invite everyone to lunch which will also include this year's auto finance excellence awards presentation. Lunch is sponsored by clarity Services Inc and will take place in Latour ballroom where we had the morning session with ban. Operation spotlight session five will begin here at 2pm thanks to the sponsor Island x here </div> [/toggle]
