Mobility serves as the lynchpin for French automaker Groupe PSA’s reentry into the North American market. The OEM has already launched Free2Move, a smartphone-based aggregation platform that unites all of Groupe PSA’s mobility solutions — including carsharing, fleet-sharing and fleet management, connected services, and car leasing. Larry Dominique, president and chief executive of PSA North America, will discuss how the mobility market is expected to change the industry and where PSA is focusing its own mobility operations. [toggle title="TRANSCRIPT"] <div class="transcript-scroll-box">00:00To the rest of our sessions. Before we get started, I want to let you know that we're going to announce the check in challenge winner at the end of the last session of the day. And the winner is going to receive an Apple Watch Series three, but you must be present to win. So if you're in it to win it, stay till the end of the last session, we'll announce it and you'll get the watch. Next, I want to announce our winner the demonstration challenge the votes are in. drumroll I wasn't expecting to do that. That's great. Thank you. So the winner gets an American Express gift card in a $5,000 advertising package and on a Friday at Stevens dotnet. So great prize and our winner is fair. So if someone from fair Mason or another representative could come up here we have the gift card for you. 01:04 Great. So before we get into the next session, I do want to take a moment to, like let everyone know today is International Women's Day, which is really great. At AFM auto fights news, we're trying to cultivate a culture of diversity. And we're starting this with a call for speakers for all of our events, including our upcoming auto finance performance and compliance event, which is may 9 and 10th, at the Omni Dallas. So we really encourage you guys to nominate your colleagues for this, your female colleagues so that we can get them on our speaker roster because they're really trying to cultivate that in our all of our events. And we're going to have a call for speakers form up on our event websites, the website for performance and compliance in it. It's auto finance, performance calm, so please be sure to visit that. And then all of our future events are also going to have this form on them. So we really encourage you guys to do that. That being said, no better time to introduce our next moderator. Emma Sandler who's joining us. She's my unintentional twin for the day. We did not plan this we are matching 02:08 in true International Men's Day fashion. So please join me in welcoming me to the stage. 02:25 On top of coincidentally dressing the same today. The other week. We both got haircuts over the weekend. And I stood up from my desk and I looked at her and I was like, we have the same haircuts so it's starting if I have a white Texas accent do forgive me. Larry Dominique is president and CEO of PSA North America. Group PSA is the global automotive company which produces Peugeot Citroen DS, Opel and Vauxhall automobiles and the global mobility services brand free to move in this role he is responsible for developing the North American business from a Greenfield, which includes mobility, financing parts and service aftermarket connected services, as well as vehicle sales and distribution quite a lot on his plate. In April 2016, PSA announced the global push to pass plan which of which reentry in North America is a key element. Larry's experience spanning over 34 years in the automotive industry also includes various Engineering and Management positions at General Motors and Chrysler motors. Larry holds a BS in electrical engineering from Lawrence Technological University in Southfield, Michigan, please come to the stage. Sure. So to begin with, you know, obviously I just went over a little bit of your bio You know, there's quite a lot there. So I'd love for you to sort of briefly go over your more extensive background, as well as how you ended up at PSA. 04:09 Sure. The First things first, good afternoon, everybody. It's great to be here today. The The first thing I thought of when I was doing introduction is I just realized how old I actually am. And but what's interesting is is my background, you know, I started my career at General Motors, I was at Chrysler, I spent 22 years at Nissan and a variety of roles. I then left the OEM world for a little while went to truecar, where I actually had dual roles. I was the president of automotive lease guide. And at the same time, I was the executive vice president of let's see, PR when Scott was behaving and not behaving. I was head of analytics for a while. So it's been this really interesting opportunity to step out of the OEM four world and get into more of a startup technology perspective and data, which was really, really instrumental at the end of 15. I left and I consulted for a while and During that year, Carlos tavarez, the CEO of PSA Group globally, who used to be my boss in North America for Nissan reached out to me and said, Hey, Larry, we're going to announce this push to pass plan. But I don't have anybody in the company who's still been around since 1991 when when Cujo left North America, so he asked me if I work on some of the branding, marketing product and distribution strategy. And I said, Sure. At the end of six, he reached back out to me and said, Okay, now we have to operationalize, would you run this business? And at first I said, No, I kind of liked walking down stairs every day in my boxer shorts and sitting at my desk and just consulting. It's kind of a fun way to do your day. But he started to paint his vision to me about what he wanted to do. And he said, you know, we need to think about the marketplace in a different way. We all know North America is a very what we refer to as bloody ocean, kind of marketplace, meaning, you know, incentives are over 10% of the transaction price of the vehicle. We have high turnover low margins in this market. Good place. How can we do it differently? The world is evolving very rapidly around this technology. As you saw here today with the innovation that's being shared. You can see how fast consumer expectations are changing in the Amazon world. And he said, we need to come to market in a different way. And I'm going to give you the time to do that. So we went had some back and forth and I said, you know, if we're going to do this, right, we only have one chance to do it the right way and do it successfully. And that means you can't throw a plant in Georgia, you can't ask me to hit 5% market share within 10 years. We need to develop brand brand strength, we need to find innovative ways to to sell, distribute, service and interact with consumers from a brand point of view. So that kind of latitude really was exciting to me. And with my background, I felt that my diverse background with different OEMs and technology side gave me more of an arsenal of skills that I could use in this new role and I'm telling you, I use every single one of them every day. 07:03 Okay, and speaking of brand and innovation, I understand that free to move has already launched in the US, but you guys don't have, you know, a financing arm here yet. So I'd love to know more about, you know, the strategy behind that. 07:18 Yeah. So when we talked about that bloody ocean kind of strategy again or the marketplace we're in today. What we wanted to do is Well, the first thing is the PSA vehicles, as great as they are on a global basis are not meeting us regulations. So one of the first things we have to do is engineer these vehicles to meet us regulations. And that takes a while take several years to do that. But at the same time, because consumer expectations in automotive are changing so rapidly, the evolution and the growth of mobility services are starting to take off as well. The goal was let's launch with a service first. have a presence in the United States and North American market. We're gonna be in Canada pretty soon to understand the data understand the consumer motivations? Where is car ownership going? How are the different models, as we were discussed here today between subscription and leasing and financing, and there could be new solutions coming down the road as well. So we want to take our time, understand the market, worked on the data infrastructure, and learn how a brand like one of our brands, which we're going to bring, can interact with consumers in a much more meaningful way, not just for a point of sale, but actually through the life of the customer journey. 08:29 Okay. And then Are there other initiatives that you guys are working on as well? 08:33 Yeah, so we launched in October, we did a soft launch in July and a hard launch in October of our free to move aggregation platform. So people are familiar with Expedia and things like that. We are an aggregator in mobility services. And we're going to continue to expand that this year with more partners in more cities. We're going to activate our marketing for the first time because we want to have enough partners on the system to do that. But we're also going to be launching in the summer this summer, our first physical carsharing facility I can't say we're finalizing negotiation with the city. So I can't announce the city yet. But we're gonna be launching one seed this year and probably two or three cities next year. It's really great that folks are here to say that talk about subscription because subscription is another service we're looking at as well. But one of the differences is, you see a lot of OEMs out there today and one thing that makes PSA quite unique on a global basis already in Europe, under the Freedom ood manner, we have multi branded leasing, multi branded servicing multi branded Connect services. And what that means is we don't just lease and and subscribe and do those kinds of things to PSA vehicles. We do Volkswagen, we do Ford Motor Company. So we're looking at multi brandom solutions in North America as well. So we're not just going to be like Cadillac with book or Ford with with their service. We're going to be actually multi branded and that we believe gives us a much broader sense of what the consumer expectations are. Right? Yeah, and continuing you have all these different you know, projects going on. And you did mention, you know, some stuff by the end of this year and two, three cities like next year. Overall, could you give us a more expansive timeline for different things? Sure. So mobility is going to be continuous. So we're going to continue to grow our mobility presence in North America. As an OEM, it's great because we can scale nationally and internationally if we want to, from a car point of view, the really the questions I get all the time, least every time I see Keith crane at automotive news, Larry, what brand? What, how many, what's your market share expectation, how many dealers are going to have, and what I can say is at this point in time, we're thinking of it from a standpoint of we haven't made any decisions yet. But what we are looking to do, which I think is very innovative is as a Greenfield opportunity. I literally have no legacy in North America, which means I don't have any dealer contracts that are existing, I don't have any infrastructure contracts that are existing. So we can build everything from the ground up and to be A profitable automaker in the future, we have to be agile, which means we may launch in a few states and develop all of our infrastructure through partners and through through other types of relationships where we can scale. So we're not investing billions and billions of dollars, where you have to push 10s of thousands or hundreds of thousands of cars through a pipeline, just to get a small return on that investment. So if we develop more innovative strategies, an example would be from an IT infrastructure point of view. Maybe I just want to partner with a Microsoft or Google or an Oracle and build a cloud based infrastructure, which is very scalable. From a parts and service point of view. Maybe I partnered with Amazon, they're probably better at moving parts around the United States than I could ever be. Right. So I don't want to own warehouses. I don't want to own trucks. I want to partner with innovative people. But I think the other key part of that is the customer journey. So there's the physical pieces that every OEM has to put in place to sell service warranty cars and finance cars. But from a standpoint of The other parts of the customer journey, how does a brand continue to interact with the consumer on a daily basis. And this is where we think the mobility time has an important piece in this puzzle, because everyone needs mobility. And we think of ourselves as a global mobility provider. You need a car for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year, five years, 10 years, we have solutions for you. But I might also have solutions. If you buy a car from us. And you need a different car for a weekend, maybe I have the services available for you. Maybe you fly to Europe and you are free to move application, I can give you access to mobility while you're in France, for example, by the way great city to go to if you haven't been there. So So we believe it has to be a multi faceted approach. And the advantage I have over most the other OEMs is they would have to tear down to rebuild. So which is very expensive and very challenging to do because of their existing relationships and agreements. So we have the chance to try to do it very with high agility In the future, right, yeah. And going off with all of this, how do you measure progress in mobility? If you're not using the sort of typical standards for that kind of thing? It's a great question. There was recently a white paper published by KPMG, related to the role of an automotive OEM CFO in the future. And it really started when I read the paper, I started thinking about airlines, it was starting talking more about seat miles, if you want to think of it that way. revenue recognition if somebody picks up one of our car sharing in New Jersey and drives into New York, where's the revenue recognition so So the whole idea about how you measure your KPIs how you're measuring your your financial situation, becomes a very different equation. It's not just wholesaling cars anymore. So I think as as this mobility shift occurs, I think we're going to have to be very flexible in the way we think about you know, the KPIs and measurements for success. But what I want to be clear about our position on mobility I mentioned we want to be a mobility provider, no matter what part of this stream, you need a vehicle or transportation. But I think it's also important to understand the definition of mobility varies so much depending on who you're talking to. Right? Some people just car sharing others, it's ride hailing others, it's subscription, whatever it might be. But at the end of the day, today, 83% of the vehicles in the United States are sold to people 17% I think last year were sold in two fleets next rental car and commercial fleets and so forth. Mobility today makes up a very, very, very small piece of it. In 10 years, you might be 75%, retail 7% mobility, and the rest is traditional fleet. So we're not going to see this Paramount shift in the next five or 10 years where also the OEMs are not selling and financing and leasing cars to consumers. That's going to be our primary business, and everyone in this room interacts with that. So it's an evolutionary process, but the reality Is the market shifting and we don't have to move along with it. 15:03 All right. I am curious. We had a gentleman on one of my panels yesterday who was saying that in regards to mobility and you know, part of his role is being essentially like a teacher, you know, talking to the board and informing them that it's not a strictly ROI situation. I'm wondering how much that might factor into what you do. 15:23 It absolutely does and our CEO Carlos Tavares likes to tell me so Larry, you and I are just old car guys. But we have to think differently. We have to think innovatively, and my time at truecar helped me think in a very different way. But very, very true. And one of the things we're doing differently a PSA that a lot of other companies have done is we're not going out and making hundred million dollar investments and 100 and $50 million investments into companies where we buy these companies and running these companies. We have a strategy through PSA ventures which is our global VC fund that we fund ourselves. We tend to take minority stakes in highly innovative startups. And the goal is to look for like minded partners that are capturing innovative ideas. And our goal is OEMs aren't always the best at buying and running things that are innovative. And startup, sometimes it's better to let the smart people that develop these ideas, take that idea and run with it, we want to help them, we want to help fund it, we want to benefit from the relationship, but we don't want to take it over and tell them how to run a business that they know better than we do. So we've taken this approach where we're partnering, so they're not huge investments, and some of them are pretty high risk. But it's that flexibility. Because I'm not just buying into a, let's say, a micro transit in New York City, where I can put more matrices or more sprinters in the business to maintain a market share. We're working looking for innovative ways to make a better customer experience. Yeah, speaking of, you know, high innovation, how would you categorize that? What do you look for other than just innovation for you know, partnerships and startup investments. So, for us a big key in this is the customer journey. You know, we keep talking about the customer journey. And we know today in automotive retail in particular, there's this digital physical relationship, we like to use the word digital in some of our discussions, but there are physical touch points and there's digital touch points. But when we look at the whole ecosystem, we're trying to think of this way that we can interact with consumers in a much broader brand direction. The reality is the United States most OEMs relationship with their customers are handled almost directly by the dealer. So the OEM worked very hard with their dealer partners to develop the right relationship with the the partner the dealer so that they can have the right branding experience with the consumer. We think in the future, there has to be a tighter relationship between any kind of retail partner, you have the OEM and the experience with the consumer. So we believe it has to be a very, very new customer journey. And we think we're in a unique position to actually helped architect that because we're starting from scratch. 18:05 Okay, I'm curious going off of that a bit. Your idea on car subscriptions, you briefly mentioned it earlier. But at this point, you know, there's so many new things coming into the market. And I'm curious what you would bring that's different. 18:21 Yeah, it's a great question. One of the key things for us would be the multi branded approach. So if we go into subscription, just like we do in Europe, in Europe, it's leasing. It's not subscription yet. But in North America, My idea is, if we launched free to move subscription services, are going to offer a multi branded experience. So if you look at what the only multi branded, I really know today is is driven by a few dealer groups and things like Don flows group and the wheels team down in Miami and a few others, but to be able to offer a multi branded experience now what I put some of our vehicles into the mix, probably, you know, I'm not going to ignore that, but I don't know Full Size pickup trucks, right? I'm not gonna have full size pickup trucks. So my customers might want full size pickup trucks. So we need to offer multi branded experience to consumers. And that's something I believe most OEMs will not do, because they're trying to protect market share. 19:13 Okay, interesting and what kind of relationships across you know, all the different things that are going on at PSA do you have in North America right now? Or are talking about at least 19:24 Yeah, so So basically, I wake up I'm usually a pretty good sleeper but the last six months or so I wake up a lot and minor panic. 19:32 Same here. 19:33 And that panics because my to do list every single week seems a bit longer just the conversations I've had here today added another week or two to that list. And and we have so much to do, and especially building it from the ground up and finding what I'm what I'm finding in the discussions I'm having. There are a lot of traditional automotive partners in a multitude of different verticals within this industry. Some of them are all called static meaning They're huge. They're large machines that I don't believe necessarily are innovating a lot. We have others that are trying very hard to innovate. And then we have an entire ecosystem of startups and new technology emerging, that are very innovative. And I don't like to use the word disruptive. And I've asked my team not to do that, because it has such a negative connotation. But innovation is a really key word. I think it's great. You guys are using it. So what we're trying to do right now is identifying all the different modalities of our business. Who are the innovative thinkers, who are the ones that are thinking out of the box that could partner with us to come up with a new solution for whether it's how we're going to distribute cars, how people are going to order cars, the digital experience, the parts and service side, all those elements are ripe for innovation. So what I'm doing right now, myself and my team as we're, as I'm growing the team, we're spending a lot of time reaching out. I've had a lot of people reach in as well. And already the Atlanta Falcons would love for me to put one of my logos on their stadium. I found that out the other day. So, so we really are looking for innovative partners. And so you know, and I throw that kind of out as a wide cast net. You know, if you feel you have innovation, we'd love to talk to you. 21:20 The Atlanta Falcons innovative enough for you. 21:23 You know, when I when I was looking for headquarters locations, the city of Atlanta took me up in a helicopter, which was my first time in helicopter, which is pretty cool. But the first thing I did was fly me over the Mercedes football stadium and Mercedes headquarters and the baseball stadium which has a bunch of automotive logos and I thought, okay, you know, and I saw the size of the logo on top of the stadium. I said I bet that cost a lot of money. So going back to the fact Carlos Tavares is about agility and scaling and stuff will be a while maybe the logo will start really small and eventually wrote in the larger logo, of course I have to tell you what logo it is first. 21:58 Speaking of Atlanta, sun It was pretty recently announced of this decision to put the headquarters there. I am curious about, you know, the rationale for this. 22:09 Yeah. So it was it was actually a very interesting process for me to have different cities vying for our headquarters. Even though we're starting out as a very small organization, I've got 10 people, but we'll probably scale to close to 100 over the next three or four years. But I, when we narrowed it down, we had narrowed it down to four cities, Seattle, Raleigh, North Carolina, Dallas, Texas, and Atlanta. And that was done for a lot of reasons. We had a lot of quantitative measurements, relative to import receptivity, openness to things like mobility, mass transit, those kind of things. And I really wanted a balanced culture. One of the culture that is innovative, is thinking about smart cities initiatives is doing some mobility activity, but it's also still an emotional car culture. Because at the heart of what we are, we're still going to produce and sell cars. So what we liked about doing Georgia and Atlanta was this nice blend, great university systems great, great quality of life, great technology growing. Several companies in here today are headquartered in Atlanta and our neighbors of ours. So we ended up choosing Atlanta for that mixture of things. We've already got a good relationship with the University of Georgia, Georgia Tech. So we're very quickly trying to integrate ourselves in how we can leverage and benefit from those relationships within within Atlanta area. 23:27 Okay. And as you grow to, you know, around 100 people in the next few years, do you imagine satellite offices across the country in different 23:36 parts. So already, as I mentioned, like the car sharing and some of the other activities as we grow the mobility services, we're already going to have people in different states running some of those businesses for us. My Chief Technology Officer, my chief engineer, is in Detroit right now. So we're going to have most of the people in Detroit, I'm sorry in Atlanta, but we're we will put people where we need to Once I started selling retail in certain states, I'm going to have to have people and all those things. 24:03 Right. And on the finance side, you know, what are your goals on aligning your innovative sales ownership structure with, you know, how folks actually pay for things? 24:14 Yeah, it's a great question. And we have our our, our captive is BPF and BPF. So putting us in perspective on scale, so we are the second largest OEM in Europe. We were the ninth largest OEM globally, we're about about four and a half million cars now with the acquisition of Opel and Vauxhall, so we tend to partner so BPF has a tendency from a captive point of view to partner. So we we've already had several of the large players reach out and just have an initial discussion with us. But going back to the innovation discussion, we are looking even in that process, so when we talk about there's a lot of discussion today about buying the entire process digitally. I completely buy into that You know, I want this to be very, in a nice customer experience for people. And financing becomes part of that. And it's not just whether I'm subscribing leasing or retailing, it could also be the f&i products. It could also be the accessory ization. We talked this morning about gap insurance and things like that. So we want to have a great experience. And we do want to be very innovative, but at the end of the day, we're still gonna have to finance a lot of cars and lease love and subscribe a lot of cars. 25:26 Right? Yeah. And the partnership aspect. I mean, you mentioned that a few times already. I'm interested in knowing why that is better versus building versus buying. So from a partnership point of view, 25:40 yeah, yeah. So So from our point of view, the agility You know, when when a company gets too large, and the A good example of this would be it's a small thing, but we're currently in a we work facility in Atlanta, you know, super flexible, I can scale up, I can scale down. I can move offices, I can change your own whenever I want. And what was interesting to me is I saw some fortune 500 companies now starting to put people in these flex space offices, but putting 50 people 80 people, not six or five. And and when I talked to some of the the leasing people, and I asked, why are they doing that. And they said, Because big companies struggling to learn, it's not about owning the real estate, it's not about having all that infrastructure built into your cost structure. There are better partners out there that can do things more with more agility leaner than you can do. They have more scalability than you do. So you don't have to buy and own everything. And we want to take that probably to an extreme. Which also means that the partners you do end up partnering with you want to develop relationships and have long term partnerships. So if we launch in three or five states and my scale to 50 states, I want those same partners and I want them to want to grow with us, which means their investment initially might be less and mine will be less but over time will grow and grow and grow. Mutual success. 26:59 Okay. For the rest of 2018, what's the priority on your agenda? 27:06 Do not look first of all, to not listen to loot to do, let's get to much longer than it already is. Key this year for us is the launch of more than mobility services. So the emphasis is clearly on the physical services, scaling the freedom with aggregation platform and making that experience better for everybody. On the automotive side, it's about continuing to plan and look for innovative partners and scale key hires. So I'm looking for finance people, I'm looking for distribution people, mobility people, so it's going to be finding the right key executives to put in place they're gonna help us grow. 27:41 Right, and sort of in terms of your approach to mobility, you know, what is it that you think really makes PSA stand apart from other OEMs? 27:51 Yeah, so it's really interesting if you go to the PSA global website, if you go to the group PSA website, what you will see is you will see five car brands You will see a mobility brand at an equal footing with the vehicle marquees. That's how important we think of mobility as a global as a global player. So it's not just something we're dabbling. dabbling in. This is actually a key part of who we are and what our DNA is going to be. So whether it's b2b connected services are free to move or whether it's subscription or whether it's some sort of leasing mechanism. Our goal is to truly be a mobility provider for everybody, which as I said, minute, hour day week, you know, our goal was to offer a solution for you no matter what you need, whether it's b2c, or b2b. And we're brand agnostic to that element. So I mentioned the multi branded, so we're willing to put whatever brands in the model that we need to to satisfy the customers. 28:46 Okay, great. We have an audience question here, which as a reminder to other people, you can ask questions, just go to the app and sort of put them in. We've heard so much about machine learning today. Yesterday, are you utilizing it in any way? 29:03 So the answer is, is I should say we're in the process of beginning that meaning for our vehicles, we just recently signed a contract that can stay with who actually a bay area innovative company to develop all the AI and all of our cars globally. So you know, everyone talks about Alexa and Google and everything else. I'm usually wary to say that name because my house wakes up every time I say that. 29:28 Or she says, okay, and just wait. 29:31 But but from a standpoint of machine learning, one of the key things for us on the IT side of our business is one of the first things I'm going to be building out is a data and data, data acquisition, data storage, structured, unstructured data, and all the pieces we want to put in place are going to have the ability to have AI and machine learning built into our vehicles built into our systems. Because one of the things that's really amazed me about some of the innovative startups is the technology and the data. Driving efficiency. So when I talk about subscription, I'm talking about some of the other innovative models that are out there today. Without that data, without that learning, the model wouldn't be efficient enough to be profitable. And I think over the next three to five years, it's going to just accelerate. And we're going to be so predictive. You know, if you have a subscription customer, and they do flips, I can help predict what vehicle they're gonna need next, or and things like that. So we believe machine learning and AI is going to be a key part of the future for us, and we're going to build from the ground up, 30:29 will you be implementing that? Or are you in discussions about implementing that in the more traditional financing aspects? 30:35 So on the finance side, we really haven't begun those discussions yet. So what we did recently is is our, our team in France that runs the BPF side of the banking side of our, our company, has assigned somebody, a business strategy technologist who's going to be part of our team is going to be over here working with us, meeting the innovative partners and looking at the way that we can integrate, you know, all those aspects 30:59 and what are some Things perhaps, that other people or other companies ought to think about when considering, you know, machine learning artificial intelligence. 31:09 You know, it's data, data and data privacy. You know, it's kind of interesting. I work for a European company and data privacy in Europe is at a different level than North America. I'm almost literally asking the data security people can I ignore what you're going to do, and leverage little bit more data and learning on our side. But But the reality is, we need to make on the spot instantaneous decisions and every aspect of our business and machine learning, whether it's whether it's based on all the data we have on our customers, or the marketplace around us and how we respond to that is going to require integrate machine learning and everything we do. And it's it's but it's evolving so rapidly. It's almost it's hard to grasp where it's going to be. When I think about just where we were. When you look at smart home technology, for example, just five years ago. ago, and these companies that had to hardwire your whole house and the guy came out for like eight hours and programmed the computer just to turn on a couple lights in your house. Now used to, you know, you take echo out of the box, you buy a couple hue bulbs, and you've got you're up and running in five minutes. 32:13 Right, right. It really has sort of become a smart house kind of thing. And cars are gonna follow 32:18 seamless integration. 32:19 Yeah, we have another audience question. What do you see the biggest challenges in the auto finance space over the next 12 months? Next 12 months? 32:31 Well, next 12 months? You know, I think 32:34 the good news is we should still see 17 million this year in North America, which is good news. But I think one of the challenges are I do think that the evolution and mobility I do think the evolution of subscription models that are coming have got to be responded to by the traditional lenders. You know, and and whether it's partnering with some of these companies, or developing those skills in house to manage that yourself. But the great news is that the you know, Interest rates hopefully won't go crazy and the marketplace will stay strong. So it seems like a pretty solid year so far. 33:06 Great. Well, thank you 33:07 so much. This has been very delightful. Thank you </div> [/toggle]
