This episode of the Industry Pulse features the second appearance of Mike Buckingham, managing director of PIN auto finance at JD Power, to share market insights related to new and used car sales, and the factors driving vehicle financing trends in the fourth quarter. The COVID-19 pandemic remains a top concern among auto lenders and dealers. To view the full presentation deck, <a href="https://www.autofinancenews.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Mike-Buckingham-JD-Power-Jan.-Industry-Pulse-Auto-Finance-News-1.22.21.pptx" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">click here</a>. [toggle title="TRANSCRIPT"] Joey Pizzolato 00:02 Hello everyone, and welcome to the January episode of the industry pulse, a monthly market update on trends in auto finance. My pleasure to introduce Mike Buckingham, Managing Director of PIN auto finance and JD Power, returning for a second appearance on the industry pulse. Mike, thanks for joining us today and welcome back to the show. The floor is yours. Already, Joey. Thank you. And welcome to everyone on the on the video today. I sure wish we were in person. Mike Buckingham. Hopefully many of you folks know me. We have many clients out there. And again, I really appreciate Joey and JJ and all all the team at auto finance news, the opportunity to speak to you today. As I said to JJ before, I sure hope things are cleared up with COVID. And he's able to put on a live version of the auto finance summit in in October. I'll be very candid with you. I miss a lot of folks in the industry and great to get together. One thing before I start the presentation, just want to point out and a shout out to Eric Lyman and ALG. JD Power recently acquired ALG. We look forward to all their great data and insights they'll be working with Jonathan banks. It runs our nada division here at JD Power and really looking forward to providing more insights to our clients. Today's agenda similar to what I presented last summer, break the presentation in three parts, new car or new new vehicle sales, data and insights. Same thing with us cars, sales data and some insights. And then we'll wrap it up with auto finance origination data. And that's that's the primary role I have managing our pin navigator team for US and Canada. If you're not familiar with the word pin stands for the power Information Network, we derive the bulk of our data from cardiovert throughout the US and Canada. So let me jump in Joey. Start off again, with the auto sales data and insights. Mike Buckingham 02:11 One of the things is I'm going to pause on this side and I talked to Joey before, I think all of us recognize this. If we think about this past year, it was very, very challenging. I know many folks have been really impacted severely with illness and possibly year. If we look at the year, it's really basically about three parts January, February, normal, March, April, everything collapses. COVID really ramped up. And then we got back to a really rapid rapid rebound across the board. I think that surprise just about everybody. So you'll see basically three snapshots as we take you through the presentation. This this chart here illustrates if you look January and February, auto sales new were, well, a little bit above the line compared to the prior year. But liquid happens in March in the month of March, new car auto sales plunged 40% in markets like New York and San Francisco, it was over 60% clearly just amazing. What happened. Many of us have been through the Great Recession. That was more death by you know, 100 100 stab wounds. This was one fell swoop and you'll see many charts like that that illustrate. We look at it with the unknowns, what's the virus duration, severity? What's going to happen with restrictions on your operations? And clearly what's the economic impact and how do we mitigate. The next slide really talks about mitigation some of the timelines you can see how the virus cases really started to ramp up. And as we close the year, even worse, we see what happens the Fed comes in does two things cuts rate. And then the government comes into us and stimulus plan. I'm sorry, stimulus package. Later the plants open and then later deal restrictions. And along the way we can see the OEMs had to drive incentives up in the middle of the worst period of April 2000 over 5000 they've moderated down. We saw unemployment go from three and a half percent and 15% in the month of April. Now it's moderating but still much higher than it was last year. And then lastly, we saw what happened the stock market, basically a record high and you're 29,000 over 10,000 points. we exited the year actually on a high and we continue to make remarkable what happened throughout the year and just such a quick time period. A few of the mitigation measures We started off the year of the SAR was 13 and a half. You can see it fell to 7.9% fleet had dropped really dramatically. I think everyone knows the story there. It's really rental cars. There's no travel dusts really no real core activity going on. We saw what happened with the total SAR, combination of retail and fleet. And pardon me as we go back, you can see the tremendous rebound fleet has not come back, although much better than they were. But as we ended the year, the retail SAR in December was actually higher in the total set that was just slightly off of what we saw last year. Next slide. OEM and dealer focus, really, the tagline here would be quality over quantity. As you can see, when we look at calendar year 2020, the over under retail buying we did see down but dollar spent, were actually down 4%. That's a combination of the transaction price in the spending and the sales price. And then lastly, for dealers, you can see their profits were up both in the gross profit on f&i and the gross profit on the sales themselves. So all in all, pretty good recovery. For the OEMs, they had much stronger results. We look at our quarter fourth quarter comparison, you can see total sales were only down 2% in q4 fleet clearly down a high number and we've forecast we'll continue to do that retail sales in q4 actually up 1% on your car transaction prices, quarter by quarter fourth quarter comparisons, transaction prices up percent, spending total dollars up 10%. And then again in that the fourth quarter comparison you can see for the dealers their overall retail profits were up 60%. In comparison, some of the pardon me the economic factors supporting supporting sales. You can see it will do a little bit of step overall there's been about 43 billion in lost wages. But stimulus income has been over a trillion dollars. There's been about 100 billion less spending on goods. But a swap to that is less spending less spending on the services but which put approximate another 600 billion back in consumer pockets. If you look overall for the for the consumer public. In the US economy, the net savings impact between the stimulus programs and lesser levels of consumer spending was over $1.5 trillion dollars. These are behind the scenes explaining how sales rebounded so quickly. A couple a couple of takeaways I want to show to the group was interesting that we saw some of the you know for lack of better words, demographic shifts in the light right there. We look at sales by segment This is only q4 data comparison. But you can see what happened a premium car down over almost 25% and mainstream car down 11%. Overall in the fourth quarter, the mix of cars was 21% down from a SharePoint of 25% in the prior year. That equates to basically almost 125,000 in lost cart in lost car sales in q4 2020. On the other side, we know that mainstream SUVs and pickup trucks are high. And then look at the premium SUV what they did almost a 12% gain quarter over quarter between 19 and 20. Another interesting slide talks about price point in prior presentation. I've pointed out to you that you know in that 120 segment we've seen a fall off on there. And actually the fall off was more to do with that with that being dominated by cars they were entry level cars, entry level SUVs using cross 20,000 or more an MSRP or transaction price. What you can see is the entry level vehicle new has fallen really three reasons. passenger cars are falling out of Vogue. Use cars are a great alternative. And then lastly is we'll see we'll talk about further in the financing data. The subprime and nonprime buying has dropped lenders have tightened up So those those three forces are really impacted the low end of the market. But look at the other end of the market, right? They're very, very resilient when you look at 80,000. Plus, look at look at those points right there on a quarter by quarter comparison, it's it is just amazing. In the quarter, transaction prices ended over 37,000, up almost 3000. On that bottom end, though, the, the drop off in the under 20,000 units represented 200,000 units. But again, if you look, the industry was basically flat in quarter four. So you can see what was lost in that entry level vehicle was more than made up in the higher price automobiles and trucks. A couple of things and more, I guess for lack of better words, we see as enablers helping to increase vehicle sales in q4, we had lower interest rates, which was where $700 us car prices for trading were worth 1000 more, dealers were accepting about a 700 less margin. And at the same time, the OEM incentives were about $600 less look at the comparison and the punchline here. Prices the transaction price, the actual transaction price, not the MSRP vehicles rose by 8.3%. But with all the factors, the buying power factor impacts payments, only 2.6%. Again, these are reasons why sales say sales rebounded in staying very, very strong. There's a couple areas where we saw, I guess, some negative impacts and that had to do with inventory. I think most people are aware that while we're up and running production wise at the the various manufacturers, we are not producing preco COVID levels. And recently, I think many have been aware now we have we're coming up on supplier shortages, latest one being some ships, but there are other suppliers that can't come up in line right there. Therefore, the vehicle inventories at dealers have been suppressed right there. You can see while sales for car and truck on a comparison look pretty good. On the right hand side, look at the inventory levels, huge swing trucks in particular queue for 52 days supply down 16 days. That's huge. And that's what the market at car on the other hand is about flat but but the truck the crossovers. That's where consumers are buying and dealers are selling. So the Dewar's really did a great job with much less inventory. One area and we'll talk about this much later in the financial presentation. But if we look at q4 sales by tier clearly the standout is is the subprime area they were down on a year over year basis. 11%. I'll talk about that later presentation in more detail. Another area we saw a little bit of shifting mature buyers, they fell off about 2%. And you can see they are a very large part of the market in there. That's actually the rebound. What we had seen in the early parts of the pandemic is the older folks, the more mature buyers at 55. and above, were not returning. And the concern was they were very vulnerable part of the population right there. Secondarily may not as savvy as consummating a transaction or parts of the transaction on the internet. But clearly we saw a huge drop off, they're down 2% for the quarter. That is that much better than what we had seen in q2 and q3. For our 2021 outlook, a couple areas, retail sales, we see it 13 for total sales 16. Similar to what we saw last year. But what we're going to see is it's really going to be primary OEM production versus demand, what can they produce? what we feel is any demand shortfalls will be addressed through margin contraction incentives. But we look for a government stimulus to really help out the manufacturers, there are risks with supply train disruptions and putting restrictions on operations. For the dealer side, we think their profit is going to be great likely the best ever, in 2021. margins are expected expected to compress. But we see them still elevated compared to prior periods, higher retail volume in 2020, maybe offset by some margin compression so sales will probably be up their gross profits may be slightly lower. But all in all, we think it's going to be a very, very good year for The lastly OEMs. Again, likely to be their best profit ever. They've done their best, they've got favorable mix shifts, they've slowed down car eliminated car production, and shift their production more to the issue the interests of their focus much more on retail, they realize that their rental car market will be very, very slow to come back. So they've curtailed production and strategies to keep that in mind. We do see incentives, they'll probably rise as inventories rise in the second half of the year, we do see some risk to higher prices when consumer spending patterns revert back to normal. And I think we're all looking for normal right now. Not sure what we know what that means. But clearly, there'll be some adjustment period, we won't have to catch up. But I think and we believe, clearly, the government is going to do its best to keep the economy going. And we think stimulus will be great aid to not only consumers, but to dealers and manufacturers. All right, let me jump in to the use car data and insight. This data is provided to me and to you by Jonathan banks and his team. Before I go on, if you noticed in the auto sales presentation, there were references to the JD Power summit. Traditionally, we hold a one day or one day and a half summit in conjunction with the nada convention. As everyone is aware, both our press our auto summit, and then a DEA convention is virtual, I would encourage you if you haven't already to consider signing up for our event. It's on Wednesday, the 27th. And Thursday, January 28. You can reach out to me if you need some details. But I think if you just go to the JD Power website, it'll be very, very helpful. All right, let me go back in now again to the use car sales. What you can see dramatic story and we're as you saw on auto sales, we're going to see this in the US cars. We're going to see this in auto finance. You swing downward in sales with COVID march april period, we lost over almost 800,000 us car sales. We've clearly had a snapback rebound in the summer months. For calendar year 20. We see sales only off 2.6%. Much better than the 10% decline in retail new vehicle sales. We've touched on this data before the new to use vehicle ratio at retail. dealers again continue to be focused on us cars. What this chart illustrates is the percentage of used cars per new car retail. So the 109 figure indicates for a dealer if they're selling 100 new vehicles at retail, they're selling 109 us vehicles retail. Clearly it's been a focus for dealers, great profit opportunities. I you've seen a number of the public's really jumping in the auto nations carmax expanding Penske, many, many others in there clearly used is is been a focus and will continue to be a much greater focus in the industry. Talk about the wholesale prices again illustrated dip bottoming out probably in that, you know, April end of April timeframe we saw on our indexing, which is 100 100 point scale 16 point drop and then rose nearly 40 points through August. prices were 14% higher in q4 19 versus 20. So we we really had a good rebound there again, I think was shocking to many I know and speaking to a number of lenders, they were very very concerned about either the lease market or the repossession market collapsing. I think if you look back and I had many conversations with dealers, people thought do I sell my age inventory in that march april timeframe and blow it out? I think the smart lenders the smart dealers held on to their inventory and came out much better with a snapback rebound. wholesale growth outpaced the US retail price growth in q3. But the our q4 growth we saw was essentially equal at 5.5%. You can see again, the snap back from the lows of April to the struggle August growth being in the summer periods. And we get the traditional natural fall off as you can see, as we get into the fall in winter, some of the some of the segment level pricing and these are, these are at the wholesale level. Left side illustrates mainstream vehicles right side is premium. Really across the board, you can see tremendous resurgence in the wholesale pricing. Early, large truck is the dominant but even large car and mid sized car rebounded. Some of those have lows, but they they really, really came back strong across the board. Same story is true on the luxury, silent auctions. This was very interesting auction sales end of the year, nearly down 19% relative to 2019. The auctions have been a little slow to open up the head restriction periods. You've had situations where rental cars are not coming back to market because rental cars are not in service anymore. And the rental car car less or not taking on new inventory. You've seen really a delay with the capitalists, leasing returns going in the market. So a number of factors have really come to play. Seeing the vehicle sales at auction being so suppressed right there. Right side we'll just talk about auction really across the board. It's 19%. There may be some anomalies. Clearly. You can see there are some segments on the car side that are higher than average. But overall, tough time for the auctions. We do look for that to rebound in 2021. But we still don't see sales at auction was in the 219 levels for the full year and I'll wrap up with this. We saw use car prices finish 20 14% higher in q4 than they did in 19. We believe prices are expected to strain to remain strong in calendar year 21. Part of it being lower supply, but stronger economic conditions, employment coming back stimulus, we do see that the prices are going to drift from the historical highs and probably in the year flat to down slightly. All in all, we think pricing is going to be very continue to be very, very strong in the US car segment. Okay, last section take you through is the auto finance originations data and insights. First off talk about consumer choice we see in direct loan financing continues to be the method of choice for the dealers. We saw loan share for the year up four points. Really in part due to the strong OEM offers a leasing share fell to 27. I will point out we saw it as low as 24. In April, it is coming back not to the levels of 2019 but it clearly has rebounded. Viewers between loan and lease are facilitating about 85% of new and 74% of use car sales. And then lastly, we look at our direct lending data we see about 4% of the new vehicle retail sales are in some sort of direct lending. On the used cars the numbers larger because the aging is much greater. We see about 9% of the vehicles being financed directly from the dealers indirectly. Let's talk a little bit about segment share. For the captains. Their new financing share is end of the year at almost 58% from up from 50% in 2018. In q2, their share was at 67% why all the generous OEM low APR programs. On the use side Captain share is now over 20 slight increase from prior levels of partly due to CPOE bank share had rebounded sharply in 2019 to 33, but it's fallen to 28. So far, we'll talk about that we see them gaining back, but it's been really a swap set between them and the captains on new vehicle share. But on the other side US Bank shoes share is still very strong at 46% fell off a little bit in part and I'll show you a slide in a second. captains have been a little bit more assertive and aggressive in the early part of the year with CPO programs. On the credit union side we see their share continues to climb pointed out in the summer. They had peaked on new at 18% in 2018 declines Approximately 12% in here in your 2020. On the US side, though, they're very steady, we see them, you know, holding it 21% for the independence, their new car share was down 25% but their us share is remaining stable 12% that the next slide will really show you how the year panned out. You saw that in our use card data. You saw some of that in our new card data. You know financing for the captive accelerated march to the low APR offers, but and shares above 90 levels. But you can see the captain's as illustrated by the top bar in there, you know, they're starting to moderate for April peak next year fell in in late q1, but as slowly risen back to the 2019 levels. So again, they had a little trough. in competition with the capitals we see in bringing it back. For the credit unions, they lost a new share of the captives they're used as holding steady, and again independence down on new but their use, sales are steady. Impact is 0% APR loans I touched on this slide in the summertime, you can see really, the zero APR is the blue bar below the spike upward in March April and then starting to tail off. There's zero APR is are elevated compared to prior periods, but nowhere near the peak where they were at, for example, in the first half of 2020. Almost 17% had an APR of zero that that's come down quite significantly. Talk about terms, Neverending Story terms continue to increase. But what we saw this year is in the 84 month bucket, it really accelerated due to the captains many captains were not entertaining 84 month loans. Not only did they go to 84 months, but a number of the early offers had zero really accelerated. And you can see in 484 months, it actually peaked in April 29%. And now it's falling back and averaging about 18%. Use card terms again continue to increase largest gain in the 76 month up category. While captives as I pointed out increased the tenure of these loans, banks and banks and credit unions are likely doing the same. Again, it's an affordability issue, you see where the prices are going to transaction prices continue to climb. Richard content, how to the crowd are the lenders and how do the dealers make vehicles more affordable. So here you'll see some mixing terms. I won't go too deep into detail. But on the new vehicle mix, you can see that big spike in April really due to the captives. You can see now, as we go through periods June through December, that's moderated back more to the capitals being about 15%. From there peaking in the summer in the summertime, and again, that's the that's the chart it doesn't call the captain's per se but the jump up is Captain driven. You can see on the used car side really moderation in there. We saw a little bit of fall off during COVID with 16 months or lower terms, a little bit of a little bit of an abnormality and then we've seen that snap back but if you look at the US vehicle mix, it's pretty flat where you can see the ebbs and flows from the new car side. Talk about credit mix. financing, originations on new has been moving slightly higher meaning slightly more tilted towards prime and super prime. On the used car side credit quality is really holding steady. subprime share we saw four new peak in the march april time period 11% used peaked at the same time around 20 or 21%. Seasonal tax return season. That's a huge time. For subprime purchasers. It's always a great time for subprime lenders to get payback and have consumers catch up on past two payments or full year. data indicates subprime is falling back significantly though now on a year over year basis to eight and a half percent. I use on the other hand is is basically flat at 17%. I pointed out in the summer our data speaks to our actual outside data speaks to one of the suppressors on subprime and new is just the fact that there's still many folks in that segment that are unemployed or underemployed and Don't have the income to afford a new vehicle and and in turn get financed. You can see, look at the mix again, as I illustrated, you see the subprime rates drop easier to see the prime falling in the end of q1 as the prime and non prime increases, as we went out through the year, all levels have pretty much moderated. Talk about advanced, this is an area that clearly has moderated we see it both on new and used. The 121%. advance of new unused peaked in March at 27%. And I think that's when lenders were filling it out, they were trying to help the dealer sell cars they were if they were a captive trying to help their OEM sell cars, but then there was a dial back what we saw is it year in new as at 20 21%. Use about 23%. Again, we see the lower levels of advance on standards, as well as a mixing change because you've got higher levels of prime consumers purchasing vehicles, which really gave rise or keeps the zero to 90%. Advanced bucket stable. We think as far as advances go, this trend will continue. But the rate of advanced decline of lower levels advanced will probably moderate as everyone gets more comfortable from the lending side. Again, an illustrated chart showing the impact of COVID right there. The upper bar chart on new or upper line chart of new is at zero to 90%. Rocket, you can see it really accelerated had to do with more prime borrowers more incentives into the marketplace right there. But even on the US car side, you know we see same phenomena the buyers are out in force. And remember we're talking about mix. So there's more prime and super prime buyers also when they use car marketplace. A wrap it up and talk about pricing. We've got many many price points, we can compare, we'd like to show 72 months if that's the most common most common term for both new and used cars. new vehicle prices have fallen not and these would be nice if the prices fallen about 40 basis points across the board versus 2020. us we've seen pricing across the board in aggregate fall about 35 basis points. You know, as we all know, pricing reductions doing COVID do in the Federal Reserve actions. Our data in the summertime, I pointed out and I'll point out to again, our current pricing levels are the lowest we've seen in the past five years. What we've seen when we look at individual buckets of the credit spectrum, rates have declined across the board. But super prime and prime rate decreases are the greatest due to the competitive forces out there. It's very, very competitive marketplace for the prime and super prime customers. For a future forecast with the Fed taking a more modern approach we forecast loan rates to be at or near these levels. What the unknown is, is what's the stimulus? What's the economic outlook? What do vaccinations do? Do we get back to normality? The Fed gets concerned about possible inflation and starts to drive rates up still some unknowns. But we look at least through the first two quarters of this year that we see rates at a very, very similar level. The last slide is my contact information as well as our product director Paul Linden, and our sales director Robert Fox. Joey, we're recording this. Welcome to get any information. And Joey as I said before, happy to happy to share this with everybody. And with that, I'll say thank you to Joey and open it up if you have any questions. Joey Pizzolato 34:35 All right, Mike. Thanks for that. Hello again. All right. So, you know, I've got a couple questions for you. You know, you kind of touched on this during your presentation, but I was hoping we can maybe dial in a little bit further on it. You know, you'd mentioned there's a ton of unknown still in the market right now. You know, despite the fact that things are looking up. And you know, we've been talking about returning to normal for the past. I don't know since Mike Buckingham 35:00 Since last few were on the show, right? Um, absolutely. So, you know, I, my question to you is, you know what, what sort of has to happen? Like what pieces have to fall into place to get like, quote back to quote unquote, like normal? Well, I think it's, we've had stimulus that that makes up, but we've got to get the unemployment back to the normal levels, you know, where we've seen some spikes in the weekly job report. And I think what those spikes are not even showing is people that have checked out of the market, the unemployment was great, as we entered into 2020, that's got to come back. We've got to get I think, people psyche back, it's going to be a slow process, that they're comfortable. Well, number one that restaurants and retailers go back to maybe the new normal or less restrictive, that you can travel, you can go to hotels, that people are scared, I think that's the biggest thing. You know, I'm sure. Maybe some of us are in this boat, if not many of us know, folks who are very, very scared about getting sick and shut down are very, very concerned. I think that's the big thing right there. And it's going to be joy is going to be a slow climb, I don't think we're going to vaccinate, you know, 300 million people in six months. And we'll go back. But but but it'll come back. I think there are some definitely definite positives out there. The economy is all in all doing well, if the government is going to step in with the administration changes, you're clearly feeling for more stimulus methods in there. You know, President Biden has his hands full. You know, he knows the, you know, there while there are a lot of folks doing well, as you saw with some of those upper income purchases, a lot of folks aren't in it, we've got to get back to the healing. So that's it. We again, as you saw through the presentation, we see improvements across the board, we think auto sales will be okay, which means it's going to be okay. For lenders, we think the US market is good. We think retail profits are going to be good. It would help just to get more folks comfortable and more folks employed. Joey Pizzolato 37:22 Definitely. So, you know, another thing that, you know, you talked about was inventory concerns and you know, that that is one if not the largest concern facing, you know, the auto finance industry right now. Um, you know, and looking back at 2020, you know, the shutdowns and and everything that was involved around the coronavirus outbreak really kind of sent demand as we know it on kind of a normal seasonal cadence out of whack. So, so I'm curious, you know, what, what your thoughts are? What What do we have a sense of what demand might look like, when we do return to that normal that you were just talking about? Yeah, I think we look at it. And there's joy a lot, a lot of dynamics on a forward one or two year view, we see sales, overall sales basically flat, but a slight uptick in new retail sales, offsetting what we think is going to be a much longer journey on the fleet that come back. You know, you see retail sales rebounded, we think use cars are going to, you know, increase, you know, not astronomically, like we saw at the tail end of the year, but we see that up. So we think we think it's going to be good, you know, for the OEMs and dealers and the lenders, you know, what I think that the OEMs have learned through there, which are building the cars. Mike Buckingham 38:48 What's not so loss leaders, let's, you know, just cut bait, if you know, you've seen so many passenger cars be discontinued. We need to make sure and the good news about the economy is is gas prices are suppressed. If we were to go back to you know, $4 gas, then Boy, that could be you know, we couldn't build cars fast enough and sell the big SUV. So but but, you know, again, we see the demands good. And we may be also surprised with some stimulus payments coming back to the market that may even amp up but as we get in the end of q1, great. So it sounds like you know, everyone can can look forward to like a strong spring bounce this year. Sure. Exactly. Exactly. We think it'll be good, not normal, but getting better. You know, again, with the vaccines going out, people's comfort level, if we can get our arms around this and do many of the things that that you know, we're used to doing more in the travel leisure side. What's interesting, and I'll say this anecdotally joy, conversation with one of my colleagues was getting his car serviced. And the dealer was saying, you know, people are traveling. So they're buying these vehicles and they're self contained. And I mean, it's been great because what they've not spent on that vacation to wherever they are putting in the transportation, recreation. So that's the dynamic is things get back to normal. What does that look like? You know, will peloton be off the chart? You know, a lot of things like that that, you know, are are unknowns, I think we can all guess at it. There's no snapping back, but things will clearly change. Great. Great. Thanks. Um, last question for you. Sure. For dealers, top three takeaways from today's presentation. You know, top three, I think is probably the forward view, you saw the data in there. We think auto sales will be good and aiding the OEMs. Own the retailers. And really the lenders are good too. One of the things that Joe we don't do is talk about credit losses, and I work with TransUnion, or clients. I think everybody's been surprised that's been good. Use car has been good. And finance overall has been very, very good. I think for lenders, I would say it's going to be a challenge. And I think it's a pricing and risk game. There. You know, we see more folks stepping in the water stretching terms, stretching their risk profile, but that's everyone has to be comfortable and know their niche. It is tough on pricing. I would say as we get to more normalcy with cars, I think on the share side captives will still be the dominant player, but I think it will add room for some of the banks and credit unions again back in the car share. Then lastly, we didn't really touch on much leasing, we see leasing probably at about 30% or less. And OEMs have learned to sell cars without being super dominant or leasing. And part of it I didn't touch on trucks traditionally have less leased and car so that that's part of the shift in there. But I think it's really, really healthy. And I think the biggest thing is, look who would have ever believed we could have snapped back that quickly across the board. And I think and I hope that the listeners, the lenders on here, I hope your organizations are doing well. I mean, there's it's been a tough road. But I think you know, collectively, worst is over. It's only going to get better. Great. Great. Yeah, I hope so too. Joey Pizzolato 42:36 Well, thank you, Mike, so much for joining us. Mike will be joining us again in July. And please look out next month for our next episode with Jonathan smoke chief economist at Cox automotive. Finally, we'd love to hear from our listeners. You know what market trends are you most interested in? shoot us an email at info at auto finance news dotnet and thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time. Mike Buckingham 43:02 Thank you Joey [/toggle]
